{"text":[[{"start":4.96,"text":"There's this famous encounter, right, between Sékou Touré and de Gaulle, publicly in Conakry in 1958, where Sékou Touré says that we prefer poverty and liberty to riches and slavery, which is quite a powerful statement to make, especially publicly. But after Guinea went its own way, how did France manage to ensure that its other African colonies remain within this newfangled community, as they're calling it?"}],[{"start":30.36,"text":"Yeah, in fact, once Guinea took independence, it was nearly irreversible that the other countries would also take their independence. So Togo anticipated that. That's why they are allowed for decolonisation in a very special way."}],[{"start":43.4,"text":"They said to African leaders at the time, we'll grant you independence, but you have to sign co-operation agreements giving us, we, the French, sovereignty over all these domains, like, for example, the currency system, the financial system, the raw materials, all of these things. And these leaders, they agreed to do that because they were loyal to French interests, and that was their way also of staying in power."}],[{"start":66.18,"text":"So this was the basis of the system called Francafrique. So they created a web of spies. They had military bases, and the French would also intervene to help some allies who are in power and who would be in a difficult position vis-à-vis their own people. Sometimes they would also help removal of leaders who would be disobedient."}],[{"start":84.74,"text":"And so you have at least six decades from 1960 to now, six decades of permanent interventions by the French in the economic, political, diplomatic, cultural affairs of formerly serving African nations. And the CFA Franc is part of this whole system of Francafrique."}],[{"start":100.44,"text":"And the first great example of this new Francafrique system back in 1960 was in Guinea, wasn't it? The one country to vote no in the referendums. The French launched a thing called Operation Persil, didn't they?"}],[{"start":114.76,"text":"Operation Persil. Yes, Persil was an operation by the French secret services to overthrow Sékou Touré. Because Sékou Touré decided in 1960 to get rid of the CFA Franc and to issue a national currency, and France wanted to send a powerful message."}],[{"start":128.84,"text":"So there was one political part to overthrow Sékou Touré but also another financial part to put counterfeit banknotes printed by the French secret services in the economy of Guinea."}],[{"start":139.06,"text":"Wow! So, the French made fake Guinean banknotes to basically ruin the country's currency when they refused to join the CFA Franc under Sékou Touré. They essentially just tried to trash the economy. It's almost a punishment or to send a message to everybody else that you'd better be part of the CFA Franc, otherwise, look what happened to Guinea."}],[{"start":139.56,"text":"Yes."}],[{"start":161.1,"text":"Wow! That reminds me, remember this story of when Hitler dropped fake pounds in the UK to try and undermine the British economy."}],[{"start":166.64,"text":"Yeah, if anyone thinks that monetary policy is boring, think again. I mean, it can be used as a tool of war in an extremely aggressive way, be that in London in World War Two, or be that in Guinea in the 1960s."}],[{"start":179.62,"text":"But I'm curious, so Guinea has stuck its head above the parapet and tried to defy France. Did anybody else try and do that, having seen the consequences?"}],[{"start":188.2,"text":"Yes. After Guinea, there was Mali under Modibo Keita. Modibo Keita wanted to remain within the CFA Franc zone, and he tried to negotiate that with the French authorities. But they said, no, we would not give you the freedom you want within the CFA Franc."}],[{"start":202.36,"text":"So at one point he had to leave the CFA Franc. And he launched the Malian currency in 1962. But Mali is a landlocked country, so it is heavily dependent on the trade with neighbours. But the neighbours, Senegal, Cote d'Ivoire, say, oh, we are going to sever trade ties. So this compounded the problem of Mali. That's why Mali would join the CFA Franc zone in 1984."}],[{"start":224.4,"text":"Togo also decided to try and leave the CFA Franc, right?"}],[{"start":228.68,"text":"That's true. Togo has a different front story under Sylvanus Olympio."}],[{"start":231.96,"text":"It's an amazing name, by the way, Sylvanus Olympio. That's just killer. If I had another kid, I'm going to call him Sylvanus Olympio Wigglesworth."}],[{"start":240.18,"text":"Like a Greek name, you see. So he said, we are going to exceed the CFA Franc. We'll have a national currency. But months later, he was killed by some soldiers trained in France. And the archives from the French secret services say that those soldiers who killed him in the front of the embassy of the US in Lomé in Togo, were, quote-unquote, poor French elements."}],[{"start":261.76,"text":"There is no evidence that France was directly involved. But those who made the coup were, I mean, afterwards, they had good relationship with France. So the Togolese currency never saw the day."}],[{"start":272.54,"text":"Sounds like another example of libéral at work."}],[{"start":275.2,"text":"Yes, it certainly doesn't sound like France-minded Sylvanus Olympio being assassinated and the coup that ousted his government."}],[{"start":282.58,"text":"So if we go into the 1970s, there's this very unhappy history. Signs of rebellion. France is determined to crush that rebellion. But a lot more African leaders are starting to question their whole relationship with France and the CFA Franc."}],[{"start":297.76,"text":"Yes, yes. In fact, the end of the 1960s and beginning of 1970s had been the period of major disruptions globally speaking in terms of finance. The French currency had been devalued at the end of the 1960s. And African head of states were not happy with that because they would also have inflation. So they said, we would like to have, to see some reforms."}],[{"start":317.34,"text":"So by the 1970s, there were moves to Africanise the CFA Franc, right? And to give these countries some more control over it. But what did Africanisation entail in practise?"}],[{"start":328.04,"text":"First, the two central banks, because we have two West Africa, South Africa, their headquarters were in Paris."}],[{"start":334.76,"text":"Oh, they were sitting in Paris?"}],[{"start":336.68,"text":"In Paris, yes. And with the Africanisation, their headquarters were moved to Yaoundé in Cameroon and to Dakar in Senegal. Their staff was 100% French before, and now the staff has been Africanised. And also before, 100% of the foreign exchange reserves of these countries, had to be deposited at the French Treasury in French Franc."}],[{"start":357.48,"text":"And as the French Franc was devalued, these countries would lose international purchasing power. So it was decided that the mandatory deposit rate would be lowered from 100% to 65%"}],[{"start":367.92,"text":"So the French are giving up a little bit of control, but not 100% control. They still have their hand on the tiller, as it were?"}],[{"start":378.32,"text":"Exactly. But still they maintained veto power. And also they maintained the peg of the CFA Franc against the French Franc."}],[{"start":384.96,"text":"What about the currency's name. Did the C in CFA still stand for Colonies because that must have been getting quite touchy in the 70s, right?"}],[{"start":393.8,"text":"Yes. Yes, I mean, the French are very clever when it comes to play with acronyms. Originally, the acronym meant Franc of the French colonies in Africa. After the independences, they changed the names. So it first became a La Communauté Franc d'afrique."}],[{"start":407.92,"text":"So the community or the French community, not the French colonies?"}],[{"start":412.04,"text":"French community, yes. So it was clearly not an African currency, you could see. And after that, they changed to have Franc of the Communauté for West African CFA Franc. But for Central Africa, it remained FCFA, but we don't know what the FCFA meant until the mid-1970s, you see. And from there, they call it Franc of the French Cooperation in French Central Africa. So now we have two CFA Francs, same acronym, two different definitions."}],[{"start":439.52,"text":"In some ways, it's rather echoing what the British did with the word Commonwealth instead of colonies. But the point is, the currency arrangements and the political reality stayed largely the same in spite of the word change, didn't it? But then, of course, going forward, the economic situation did change in the next two decades and quite dramatically."}],[{"start":459.2,"text":"Well, you could see that after independences, even when we did not have progressive governments, there was a willingness to transform the economies. So from the 1970s, they started to borrow to boost their economic development. And that worked to some extent... there have been some form of progress created in those years. But the debt accumulated, and at the world stage you have these oil shocks. And in the early 1980s, you have the increase in interest rates. And so this created a lot of difficulties for African countries, especially those in the CFA Franc zone."}],[{"start":491.04,"text":"Why? Because the French economy itself was in trouble and started a strategy of disinflation based on pegging the French Franc to the German currency."}],[{"start":498.56,"text":"Yeah, to the Deutschmark. Yeah, it was like a strong Franc policy, basically."}],[{"start":503.36,"text":"And so the CFA Franc zone also inherited that strong Franc policy due to the peg against the French currency. And this complicated the recovery for these African countries. And so they have huge external debts, in some form, also of inflation, and also high public deficits."}],[{"start":519.56,"text":"Yeah, I mean, the strong French Franc wasn't necessarily fun for France either, but it does sound like it was enormously painful for a lot of these African countries that found themselves becoming increasingly uncompetitive at a time where they'd borrowed a lot of money to develop their economies."}],[{"start":537.84,"text":""}]],"url":"https://audio.ftcn.net.cn/album/a_1794051870_4576.mp3"}